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Committee on Foreign Affairs 13/1/2009

Senator Mark Daly:   The Book of Exodus states: “But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty, life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound and bruise for bruise.” We talk about proportionality, but we know that if one followed the advice to take an eye for an eye, the whole world would be left blind.

I had the pleasure of visiting the West Bank first hand with Deputy Shatter and Deputy Higgins, but we did not get to Gaza. Like them, I find the contribution of both ambassadors depressing. I would like the Israeli ambassador to answer one question. Is Israel using phosphorus shells?

H.E. Dr. Zion Evrony:  I have already answered that.

Senator Mark Daly:    The ambassador did not answer that question.

H.E. Dr. Zion Evrony:  I told the committee categorically that Israel does not use any weapon that is illegal. We do not use phosphorus weapons, but certain phosphorus material that is legally permitted is being used. Let me make sure the Senator understands this, because this is an important question. I set it out carefully so he will understand the response.

Senator Mark Daly:   What the ambassador is saying is that Israel uses legal phosphorus shells.

H.E. Dr. Zion Evrony:  No, that is not what I am saying. The question has been asked ——

Senator Mark Daly:   I know the Chairman asked the question, and I heard the reply.

H.E. Dr. Zion Evrony:  Let me be very clear. The weapons being used by Israel are in keeping with international law. Israel does not use phosphorus anti-personnel munitions. However, certain smoke munitions used in the recent operation in Gaza do contain small amounts of phosphorus. They are directed against military targets and used for their designed purpose of signalling and screening. This is the answer the Israeli military has given.

Senator Mark Daly:  Therefore, there are elements of phosphorus in the shells.

H.E. Dr. Zion Evrony:  Certain elements that are permitted for use by international law.

Senator Mark Daly:  Are they legal?

H.E. Dr. Zion Evrony:  They are used by NATO forces in Europe and by the British.

Senator Mark Daly:  That does not mean they are legal.

H.E. Dr. Zion Evrony:  The Senator should not single out Israel.

Senator Mark Daly:  I am not singling out Israel. The ambassador was asked a question by the Chairman, but he did not give the succinct response he has now given. I thank him for that.

I visited the West Bank and Sderot and was there during an attack. Having seen the newspaper reports, I admit the first casualty of war is most certainly the truth.

Having been in the West Bank and met Fatah and the Palestinian Authority, I wish to say to the ambassador from the Palestinian Authority that I am aware it was getting nowhere in its negotiations with the Israelis. The negotiations are going nowhere because the main players like the US and Hamas are not at the table. Many of the Palestinian Authority’s own people are in prison. As we in Ireland know, prisoners are a very important element of any peace process.

However, as was admitted by many of the NGOs, the corruption of the Palestinian Authority, the squandering of money, the use of money to further the authority’s own interests and other cases of blatant corruption did nothing for the reputation of the authority, but did much to enhance Hamas in Gaza and led to the authority’s ultimate loss in the election. The authority did not serve its people well and lost credibility among them. Now the Israelis have the Palestinians between a rock and a hard place because they do not have the backing of their own people in one section of the Palestinian state and are losing support in the West Bank. To a large extent the Israeli action must be put down to an upcoming election. We all thought Benjamin Netanyahu was a man from a bygone era. However, he has made some considerable noise in the past 12 months and based on discussions we had with members of the Knesset, it was an all but foregone conclusion that he would come back to power. Obviously the attack on Gaza, amazingly enough, is being used as part of the Israeli election and unfortunately people are suffering the consequences.

There are war crimes on both sides. I have spoken about the phosphorous shells. From my limited knowledge of peace negotiations, there needs to be a hurting stalemate on both sides. That is not in place. All the players need to be willing to participate. As we know the US does not have the resources to participate at the moment. The EU cannot get its act together. The Arab world is not particularly interested as we can see with the Egyptians not doing much on their border with Gaza — even in the three-hour spell when they are allowed access for humanitarian aid.

Hamas has promised the destruction of the state of Israel. Deputy Shatter spoke about the elephant in the room. I remind him that there is more than one elephant in the room, including Iran. I would welcome the Iranian ambassador. If this meeting is to be reconvened the Iranian ambassador should be invited back.

We have a limited ability to do anything at this point. The EU has failed dramatically. We have a preferential trade agreement with Israel and we have inserted a human rights clause. However, we have not defined it or made any attempt to exercise it. I support Deputy Chris Andrews in his call for an identification of produce from the illegal settlements in the West Bank to be identified and for those to be boycotted. When Ronald Reagan came into power in 1980 there were 30,000 illegal settlers in the West Bank and there are now more than 250,000. As we know from this country’s experience, that can lead to problems four centuries later. Above all the EU is the one that can use its monetary muscle to impose trade sanctions not only on Israel regarding its action but on Iran and its support for the unacceptable attacks on Israel itself. I fear the EU has been found wanting and will continue to be found wanting in this regard.